So recently I found myself thrust into the middle of a discussion between casual and relationship sex. The value, or lack there of, of each, and the effect each can have on your future or current state. As the conversation, got me all fired up... I decided I should be able to (even though it totally doesn't concern me) voice my opinion here. (Let's be honest, when was the last time I stayed out of something controversial??)
So basically these are two very good friends, one female, one male. One who believes and practices casual sex (practices-like it's a religion?!!!). The other who reserves sex for serious committed relationships. Is one way right and the other wrong? Hell no. When it comes to sex, my philosophy has always been to each their own. As long as your needs are being met, and your feelings protected... do as you please.
But in case you haven't noticed from previous posts... I fall into the casual sex religion. In fact at the ripe old age of 27 (no I am not going to tell you how many people I have slept with!!)... there have been 4 times in my life when I was in a relationship (including right now), but since the age of 17 I have been having sex. Sometimes it was for the wrong reasons; I was looking for validation, or love, or I hoped this boy cared more than he really did. But often, it was just because I really enjoy sex and so I felt like I shouldn't deny myself that just because I hadn't found anyone I wanted to sleep with... and date!!! (As most of you know, it's a tough combination to find!!!)
Anyway, the part that fired me up about the conversation (that I was not a part of)... was the part where friend 1 said to friend 2 that he/she was not allowing his/herself to find a relationship because of the casual sex. And that the casual sex was the reason he/she was alone!!! I call total bullshit on that... and I can back it up with a relationship to prove it.
As I mentioned before... I've never really stopped having sex (I mean I've had dry spells, but that's a totally different blog)... and I am in a wonderful relationship now.. with a man I plan to marry. We are in a long distance relationship... and didn't meet in person until about 5 months after we started talking. (It wasn't internet dating or anything like that.... although I have done that... and have some crazy stories... blogs to come.. I promise!) But we started talking because a very good mutual friend of ours thought we would hit it off at her wedding... and have a great "wedding fling" (again a casual sex situation). That's what it was supposed to be... and so before I realized I was falling in love with him... I was still having casual sex.
Bottom line... my casual sex didn't stop me from finding the right one... and falling in love.
I think everyone should make decisions about when they are going to have sex or not, all on their own... but the bottom line is... I don't think any of us have the right to be making sexual judgements.
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Was there really any judging going on? Having differing points of view and expressing those points of view doesn't, in my opinion, qualify as judging. Moreover, if we never hear an opinion that is in direct opposition to the one that we hold, would we ever question our behaviors or beliefs? To continue in our behavior and beliefs without thought would be the easy way out.
I believe a friend without any motives beyond being a friend has a duty to express themselves honestly, because often they will say things that others will not.
I don't know. I know that it's not very popular to question women who 'want' to have casual sex, that it's misogynistic, or old fashioned, because it's part of the sexual revolution and the liberation of women but I don't agree. I don't think a habit of casual sex is good for anybody. It puts you at serious risk for diseases, and I absolutely believe that having a casual attitude toward sex often results in others having a casual attitude toward you as a person, while I realize that may not always be the case. The fact is, I call bullsh-t on the girls who think they are stronger better people 'in control of their sexuality' because they sleep around. These girls rarely seem happy about the choices they have made in that regard, I doubt highly that in either case, it enhances someone's self esteem. Even on shows like Sex and The City (fantasy, and written, btw, by a gay man, created by a gay man, and while realistic and true in many ways, the approach to sex is inconsistent with any woman I actually know)...the ultimate ending on the show was that all the women found ONE person, found someone to have a monogamous relationship with, and were only fulfilled when they had brought an end to casual sex and had sex with someone they loved. I have always believed women who engage in casual sex with multiple partners over a consistent period of time are doing so to validate themselves it is the exact opposite of being strong or independent or liberated. For me, I would never even consider having sex with someone I wasn't seriously committed to in some form. That doesn't mean that i feel somehow imprisoned by that, or am not sexually expressive, not at all. and it doesn't mean I'm not in control of my sexuality. In fact, the women who seem to get involved on a whim with men they don't feel would be good enough to date, are the ones who are not in control of their sexuality. They seem like slaves to an overactive sex drive, without any regard for the person and his characteristics. It's like... why would they not want to date these men? Likely its because they know the men would not treat them well in a relationship... So if that is so, why would such a person deserve to ever have access to you in such a vulnerable, intimate form? How could you have time to find a relationship with some real substance, that really mattered to you, if your time was filled having sex with losers you would never want to interact with beyond the bedroom?
wow, the debate totally rages on! i love it! :)
so, first to Ace - as we are clearly the 2 halves of this original conversation, we can easily continue it another time - but may i just say, an opinion is "here's how i feel about it..." - not "you are emotionally retarded!"
second, to shoe gal... i totally respect your opinions, and based on the personal morals you've expressed here, having casual sex probably would be wrong for you and not make you feel sexually confident or liberated - because it would contradict your own belief system.
that said, you make soooooooo many assumptions about women who do it the other way.
1-the women i know who have more than one sexual partner are not unhappy at all. i do know some women who have been with many men they THOUGHT genuinely liked them in return, and indeed, their self esteem suffered, but the women i know who have reached a sexual and emotional maturity are not looking for every partner to be a potential boyfriend and therefore do not get their egos wounded so easily.
2-how have you "often found" women who sleep around are looking for validation? did they tell you that? validation of what? by whom? i think a woman be confident and liberated is all about being true to herself, be that chastity or promiscuity. a woman who has been told all her life to be chaste, but has a burning passion that she wants to share with more than one - if she acts on it, is liberated. conversely, a woman who perhaps spent her teen years sleeping around looking for popularity in the wrong way and always felt empty and dirty afterward... would be liberated by the self-discovery that she doesn't have to give it up to anyone she doesn't want to and can close her legs without apology.
3-you state, as if it is a fact, that women who sleep around are not in control of their sexuality. how can you possibly know that since you are not one of those women? self control seems to me to be a very personal question that varies from one individual to another and is not universally based on YOUR morals alone.
4-you question how a woman who is sexually active can make time to meet someone they want to spend time with outside of the bedroom. that's silly to me, because for me, the meeting people happens ALL the time, while the sex happens for a couple of hours or so late at night once or twice a week. as if the rest of your life shuts down once you start getting laid?! hm.
anyway, as i said, great debate!
p.s. not proofreading this, so i apologize for any typos or grammar/spelling errors
I hate sexual judgements. For the record, I don't even know the number of people I've slept with. Sure I could figure it out if I wanted, I just don't care. There is nothing wrong with casual sex and I thought we were a generation that accepted that!
Nothing wrong with any of it, as long as you're happy and feel good about yourself. Self-respect is paramount. That's my philosophy, end of story.
It's really sad when a man can step in and remind a woman what the sexual revolution was all about. It wasn't about the idea of casual sex - it had to do with the right of a woman to think and feel the way she wanted. It's honestly sad that you can sit there and limit your fellow woman to be in a box of your own making. The whole idea was beyond any singular thought of what womanhood is but to let each woman define it for herself. 'Shoe Gal' brings up points that are incredibly poignant to her... but honestly aren't worth anything besides the box she holds so sacred. You say that you are in control of your sexuality but imply that a woman who might decide to take control of her own by deciding who she may or may not sleep with is not in control of hers. How incredibly narrow minded. Are you not capable of thinking beyond the idea that sex, while incredibly important to you, might just be a gateway to something more important to someone else? Are you so limited in your thinking to wonder that someone else might have a different approach? Are you so vulnerable in your intimate form to not even imagine being vulnerable to a man beyond sex? Hold your judgments for yourself 'Shoe Gal' ... because in all honesty - you are who you are - and no one here is judging you for less... until you quote a sexual revolution for being so poor to not think that others can have a thought different then your own. Welcome to the rest of the world. We accept you - can you accept us?
Ace- I couldn't agree with you more. I believe it is the job of a friend to say the things we want to hear and don't want to hear, to make us see the things in our life that we need to see, even if we don't want to, and make us think twice about the decisions we make. But I think it should always be done very carefully, remembering that friends don't always have to agree... and then the bottom line is we should respect and support each other, even if we don't always agree!
Living Lawless- Some people may have a history of being able to be completely honest with other people. Maybe the sensitivity to some comments may be for another reason. Maybe not.
J- Perhaps the statement of "emotionally retarded" was too loaded for you? If we're having a discussion, isn't it assumed that the things said are my opinion?
To J, Am I the only person that can see that you were seriously hurt in the past here? Reading your reply to me made this plainly obvious. I have had friends go through the same thing. You are using this cavalier attitude towards sex to keep yourself from getting too close to anybody. When people have been hurt it's not uncommon to do that. I have never met you before, but I am pretty sure that your real life friends have noticed this also. They may be too afraid to piss you off by saying something. I mean, your conversation ended up on a friend's blog. Do whatever you want, but use protection everytime, for the guys' sake.
shoe gal, i think the key point in that response is that you've never even met me. let's assume, for argument's sake, that that's true.
you don't know me - so how can it possibly be clear to you that i've been hurt, that i'm unable to get close to people and that my friends think like you? pretty wild assumptions and, i assure you, incorrect.
as for your thinly veiled insult about stds, come on. let's keep this debate on a higher level or let's not have it at all.
Shoe Gal- As someone who does know J, and her motives for casual sex and her relationship background. I think I can safely say that her reasons for having casual sex right now are nothing like what you have decided they are.
And as someone, who you say, does not know my friend J, why is it you seem to be so judgemental of her lifestyle... a lifestyle you know only one tiny piece of from my blog.
And for that matter, why not lash out at me. For the entire blog that started this great debate was all about how I lived that lifestyle and still found love. But I did live that casual sex lifestyle. Do the same assumptions you have for J hold true for me, or the minute you become monogamous is your "slutty past" wiped clean?? I'm curious to know why in a blog that, yes was sparked by J's conversation, she somehow became the center of attention and the target. Did you miss the next four paragraphs where I backed up her casual sex attitude and moreover confessed to the same?? I guess the bottom line is... for someone who doesn't even know her... it sure seems like you have something against my good friend J.... Care to explain???
Living Lawless- That may be precisely the problem. You may be too close to J to be objective.
Shoe Gal- Maybe I am too close to be "objective", maybe it's just that I understand because I lived the same lifestyle. How come you didn't answer my question? Why are you so judgemental of someone you "don't even know"? And why don't you carry that same judgement for me??
If you ever feel like answering that question... let me know!
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